[DEV] Feature Requests and Ideas

Discussion in 'Origin' started by Diemex, Dec 26, 2013.

  1. Matt

    Matt Owner

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    I just lumped them both together since it's the same problem to me. Having 500 villagers in a little box or 500 cows in a little box is the same "exploit" in my opinion. Having a living entity cap is a brute-force way to make this less of a problem, but obviously having some real game mechanics like eating grass is a better approach. I'm not sure what a similar approach would be for villagers.

    Really, the whole door thing just seems silly to me. It was a lazy way for Mojang to solve villager breeding that we've reverse engineered to make grinders. I would love to see villager breeding that didn't rely on the arbitrary "door" mechanics.
  2. Matt's been known to solve this problem in his own way. lol
  3. If the primary reason for doing this is server lag or just to make it harder, then limiting the numbers makes a lot of sense. But if it's just realism I'm not sure the current model is that far off. You can put an awful lot of cows or chickens in a pretty small area. Obviously not ideal if you are a cow and the health of the animals will suffer, but it can be done.
  4. Matt

    Matt Owner

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    I think it's both. Obviously 500 chickens in a 1x1 auto-cooker is eating up a ton of CPU cycles, but it also turns the game into "Grinder Builder 2k". I don't think "realism" is the right word, since it's Minecraft. But I think the goal for this plugin should be extending the enjoyable playtime of the game by making things more balanced (and difficult).

    Having a double chest of cooked chicken should take more effort than 20 minutes of building a grinder, and 2 hours of AFKing, is my point. So, it's more about balancing out the effort/rewards than making it "realistic". Although sometimes they are inline.

    This is specific to Origin, too... I don't have a problem with people reverse engineering game mechanics to build efficient grinders on World... I think that's a big part of the enjoyment of the game, hacking it. Origin is an experiment in a different play-style though.
  5. MinerMajor

    MinerMajor Supporter

    That would justify my reaction the first time I saw a squid flopping around in the leaky basement of my monster grinder...

    [​IMG]
  6. Coronus1

    Coronus1 Supporter

    I still think that much care needs to be taken in nerfing animals/villagers. Here is why, my ussual MC sesion goes a little something like this:

    1. Harvest my 50 something trees (which require a huge are and lots of time), ussually 15-20 minutes to gather all the fallen apples and ssappling and replant.
    2. Check my egg grinder (yes I ahve an egg grinder). Now it only has about 20 or so chickens in it and only gives me maybe 2-3 stacks of eggs per MC day.
    3. Check wheat feild (roughly 4 9x9 plots in a square), if it is mostly developed, harvest all of it and replant if it isnt leave it for a little longer. I ussually get about 1 1/3 stack of seed after replanting and 4-5 stacks of wheat. This ussually takes 10 mins or so.
    4. Harvest cane. I get about 9 stacks from my small feild. Ussually takes about 5 mins.
    5. Check animals. Now here is where it gets a little interesting in my oppinion when talking about the animal nerfs. If I have 9 full stacks of eggs, I will throw them and get chicks. If I already have chickens (which I ussually dont because I kill them once they are all grown) I kill about 30-40 of them. Let new chicks grow. Breed cows, I ussually then kill the same number of cows I just bred. Breed pigs ( i just got them so I dont have many). Look at my sheep and dispare that I dont have any iron to waste on shears. If I do have shears I shear them and this probably adds a good 15-20 mins of animal husbandry to my time line.
    6. Villagers: I have about 6-7 I am currently trading with. They are the first ones I brought out of my breeder. I will then place my wood in the ovens to convert to coal. convert cane to paper. Then try and up my villagers trading and get emeralds. This can take anywhere from 10-30 mins.

    All in all by the time I have done all this I have spent roughly 2 hours just doing MAINTENANCE on everything I have spent hundreds of hours creating. Increasing this time doesnt seem like it lends to gameplay at all. I honestly built all this stuff so that I could "gameplay." Gameplay on origin to me is exploration (which I dont seem to get to do much of) finding and raiding , er, I mean trading with a neighbor, and geting ready for a dragon fight. I am still to scared to go mine at low levels due to horrible spawning down there. I made my mine too big I guess and when I get to the end of it there are lots of nasties waiting in the front for me to try and come home, bleh. I think i would still be scared in full diamond gear with full prots on it.

    Dont get me wrong either, I am not complaining as I chose to play this way but I just think adding to the difficulty would really make things way to hard for the average player playing on origin. but thats just my 2cp worth.
  7. Coronus1

    Coronus1 Supporter

    RSK just got my gears turning aftering reading one of his posts. Why not have some monster bosses and quests that anyone could pull up with a command like /quests. This could create some interesting conflict on the server. You could have people trying to do same quest backstab, er, team up and complete them. It might also create some fun pvp aspects (I know, I know, all you whiners, er weiners, er winners out there dont PvP). Could liven things in origin up and foster more exploration. you could give cool rewards for completing x quest or killing y mobs or z monster boss that were unique like the golden pick ax of absolution: an enchanted gold pick ax that totaly annihilates any earth or mineral block it hits or something. I understand there is a balance issue but it could be fun.
  8. junglemason

    junglemason Supporter

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    This is not a serious request, but just an idea to toss out: what about greatly nerfed (and very rare) variations on the Ender Dragon in the overworld?

    As for what Coronus said, I much prefer PvE and coop over PvP, so I would be in favor of those kinds of changes rather than more encouragement of PvP. IMHO, the changes to PvE are what make this plugin so great (and they enhance coop).
  9. The whole point of animals eating grass for me is:
    1. Enforcing caps on how many animals can spawn is "lame". There is enough "you can't do this" "you can't use that" in ehm already.
    2. Where possible I want to make features feel like they are part of the game. Falling stones, falling trees etc.
    3. I mislike people holding animals in tight spaces somewhere underground. Even though I'm not a veggie it just irks me that that is possible
    My ramblings on villagers:
    1. They use a completely different way of breeding and killing them doesn't yield any benefit -> They require a completely different approach
    2. Basing the villager count of the number of doors in a village is a cheap way of estimating the size of the village, but the default values of having 3 doors per villager is too low. Something like 1 villager per door makes more sense.
    3. Building door contraptions to increase the number of villagers is weird, shouldn't be necessary
    4. Infinite villager spawners should be completely blocked
    5. Killing of villagers in search for the perfect villager for trading should be discouraged or penetalized
    6. Holding villagers in tight spaces should not be possible
    7. Ideally you would have to build a real village and depending on how good of a job you did your village would flourish or not. Beds for sleeping, water from cauldrons, patches of farmland for food (I don't want to code this, it's just an idea)
    Regarding bosses and the sorts:
    1. I think there is not enough to explore as in buildings and random stuff to find
    2. Vanilla dungeons lack "creativity" and variety. How about adding some more dungeons with custom spawners and lootchests that are good enough for you to want to conquer the dungeon.
    I don't have much time atm. exams are coming up so any ideas will probably be only implemented in a few months
  10. Here's my opinion on potion making. I feel that the netherwart is too nerfed. I would like to see the ability to grow it brought back. This is my reasoning; With aggro pigmen and blaze splitting, the nether is already very difficult to navigate, and you need to get both netherwart and soulsand inorder to grow more netherwart.. Several of the items needed for potions come from the nether, such at netherwart, glowstone and blazerods. Many other items necessary to craft potions are also difficult to come by, such as melons, redstone, gunpowder and gold.

    In vanilla, there doesn't seem to be much use for potions. This is an opportunity to make potions valuable, but it becomes more hardship than it's worth when the ingredient necessary to all but one potion is so difficult to obtain. A compromise might be the ability to grow it, but when harvested you get a 75% chance of one drop, with a 25% chance of a second drop. It still makes it difficult to obtain, but not so much so that potion making becomes pointless.

    Also, it looks like Mojang has nerfed the villagers in 1.8. :)
  11. junglemason

    junglemason Supporter

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    I agree with all this. I think the difficulty ramp between the overworld and nether is too steep. Once I finally killed the pigman that kept killing me while I was still materializing in the nether, I half-slabbed and dug a pigman-proof trench around the half slabs. Still, a new pigman has spawned inside my portal frame in the nether, and is once again killing me before I get a chance to orient myself in the Nether and take a shot at him. I might have a chance in the nether if I can just get there first.

    I like that Mojang is nerfing villagers. It does pretty much eliminate the design I'm currently using, where a bunch of villagers are crammed into a 1x1 hole for infinite breeding. I hope they also patch the exploit where if your villagers are 6 blocks above the doors, they can breed infinitely. Seems to me like a simple thing to fix.
  12. glt1022

    glt1022 Supporter

    don't fret, @Cryptomeria will likely come up with an enhanced villager Viagra shortly, then we can all be voyeurs again.
  13. It seems like Mojang actually hasn't fixed that infinite villager bug, or I'm not 100% sure yet. If they haven't I might fix that because it's the root of all evil :D.

    Concerning netherwart: I liked the netherwart the way it was when it was introduced, meaning it could only grow in the nether. I think restricting it to growing in the nether sound like a good idea. Potentially add some similar plant death mechanic might be a good idea. Something like having the soulsand be consumed by the netherwart or similar. Relastically you won't use more than a stack of netherwart within the lifespan of the map, so it sounds like a good idea to add some grind to netherwart. Just some ideas, still thinking about it...

    The nether is extremely hard that is true: It is meant to be that way. I have turned it down already it was a even extremer in the beginning. There are a few issues that make it a bit too hard imo. For example pig zombies were never meant to be an aggressive mob, they are far too op for that. They can easily instakill you and even with armor they kill you very quickly. Reducing the damage they deal might be a good idea for starters.
  14. mikej1592

    mikej1592 Supporter

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    wow, much read, very words, such overwhealm, many giveup
  15. Cryptomeria

    Cryptomeria Supporter

    The problem with villager trading is inherent to the game as it is now. 90% of the villagers have shit for trades so you have to breed 500 to get 25 usable ones. You can't just breed priests, blacksmiths and librarians and even if you could it is too difficult to get the stacks of emeralds needed to start out the trading process to get good trades. It is very nice to have a villager that will trade you diamond gear and another that will enchant it---however given the time it takes to do so you could probably mine just as many diamonds and get just as much xp to do the same thing. If you want to make it more difficult to get villager items then charge an extra fee along with the emeralds like a diamond or two--same as you would have to if you wanted to repair an item.

    As for villager trading and enchanting in 1.8---we have discussed this in mumble. We feel that if Mojang is going to make the game for 6 year olds then they should start developing a version for adults and a version for kids.

    The problem with Origin for me and why I have not been playing back on there is that it just turns Minecraft into a huge pointless time sink. There is only so much time I am willing to spend repairing giant creeper blasts and continuously retrieving my items to no avail. I think there does need to be /quests, /challenges, or whatever so the game doesn't seem so depressing.
  16. glt1022

    glt1022 Supporter

    Quick, delete this before @mikej1592 sees it or else he's gonna think we don't care.
  17. I have to say that I really like the new enchanting mechanics, it uses lapis which is good and the fact that it only uses 3 levels per enchant is good for origin. On a pure vanilla server with a grinder it probably seems like a bad joke, but for origin it's balanced perfectly.

    Here is my personal opinion on origin and from running ehm servers for quite a while:

    ExtraHardMode does indeed make lots of things take a lot longer, it can get really time consuming. The nice thing though is that it can make the game still be fun after months on the same map. I always have played with friends though, going caving and adventuring together is a lot fun. Being alone on the server with not much more to do than to grind for stuff and then to loose it all, requires a lot of endurance and dedication which is especially hard if you are not enjoying yourself either.

    On my last server I came up with an achievement system that made you rank up by unlocking achievements. The achievements could be viewed within the game in a menu. It was stuff like "Kill a Ghast", "Brewing potions", "Blow up a charged creeper with tnt", "get a carrot and potato from a zombie". It seemed to motivate quite a few people when they saw some progress, not just the grind.

    Pair the achievements with something that adds more dungeons and potentially random buildings to explore, spice up combat with some new enchanments or spells (carefully balanced) and set the main goal of the server to kill the dragon and one might have some interesting gameplay.

    Atm though I fell like mojang is turning minecraft more into a sandpit for kids and not adding more content to explore. Imo survival mc is dying and minecraft is going to turn more and more into a platform for minigames for children. I might try setting up a modded server again with something like Hexxit and just make ehm compatible with the mods so I have something to explore and keep things interesting.
  18. junglemason

    junglemason Supporter

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    This would be a great change, and possibly all that's needed.

    I noticed the in-game tip about blazes that says they only spawn near lava. That makes sense. (I thought they could just spawn anywhere below y20, so that's good to know) - do they only spawn near lava in the nether too, or just that way in the overworld?
  19. I've seen them spawn nowhere near lava in the Nether
  20. _Crabwich_

    _Crabwich_ Supporter

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    I think that the large map is the main catalyst for the decline in active players on Origin. I think that a small map would force more interactions. I had fun playing when there were others around to share in the misery. Timing is another reason for the decline. The introduction of Skyblock drew some away then we had the 1.7 expansion on the World server and everyone had new interest to discover and build there. I still think that Origin is a great experience but, with the huge map, there is little interaction with others and, like you said, being alone is not very enjoyable is such a hostile environment.